<af2a8eab0704070701o625a1cd9y1e679b33bd8aa958@mail.gmail.com>
Current votes: None.
------=_Part_16916_1807164.1175954504856 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline 2007/4/7, Sander Tekelenburg <st@isoc.nl>: > > > At 12:05 +0200 UTC, on 2007-04-06, Alfonso Mart=EDnez de Lizarrondo wrote= : > > > 2007/4/6, Sander Tekelenburg <<mailto:st@isoc.nl>st@isoc.nl>: > > [...] > > ['CSS zapper' > <http://webrepair.org/02strategy/02certification/01requirements.php#req26 > >] > > > That idea is basically a way for web authors to override the UA default= s > >and this way overcome the current differences in those defaults > > Right. > > >, but in no > >way it does assure that the users will get their expected rendering > because > >the user could have specified a User Stylesheet. > > By what logic would a user define User CSS and not expect that to affect > the > rendering? (And, as I said earlier, a specced default presentation doesn'= t > give that ensurance either.) I meant: the users won't get the web authors expected rendering. No matter if there's a common CSS for all UA or not, or if the web author uses a 'CSS Zapper' or not, the users can specify their own file that will override all of them. So the idea of adding a CSS Zapper in every web mean just more Kb to download, and now people are suggesting this because each UA has some differences in their default values. If every UA used the same defaults fro= m the beginning then the idea of a CSS zapper wouldn't had saw the light. >Having the UA use all of them a common stylesheet will get the same effect > >that specifying a "CSS zapper", but most important: it will be easier to > >control the rendering if all the behavior is specified in a css file use= d > by > >the browser. > > Control by whom? (I ask specifically, because on the WHATWG mailing list > now > and then people seem to think that control should be moved more from user= s > to > authors, which I thoroughly disagree with.) By both web authors and users of course, anyone that can put a css file won't have to guess how to override some styling if you can find it documented in a single place. And users will be able to use the same User Stylesheets across different browsers and it will work all the same Anyway, you seem to be talking here about the problem that some UAs use > styling that cannot be targeted through CSS. As far as I can see that's a > different issue altogether. My initial take on that would be that users > can > vote with their wallets. Users just have to choose the lesser evil. Browser A does this, browser B does that, browser C does that other thing and I can't use browser D as it'= s not available in my OS. So they stick just with the one that gives them les= s troubles (if they ever notice that they can choose their browser) ------=_Part_16916_1807164.1175954504856 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline <br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">2007/4/7, Sander Tekelenburg <<= a href=3D"mailto:st@isoc.nl">st@isoc.nl</a>>:</span><blockquote class=3D= "gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0= pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <br>At 12:05 +0200 UTC, on 2007-04-06, Alfonso Mart=EDnez de Lizarrondo wro= te:<br><br>> 2007/4/6, Sander Tekelenburg <<mailto:<a href=3D"mail= to:st@isoc.nl">st@isoc.nl</a>><a href=3D"mailto:st@isoc.nl">st@isoc.nl</= a> >:<br><br>[...]<br><br>['CSS zapper'<br><<a href=3D"http://we= brepair.org/02strategy/02certification/01requirements.php#req26">http://web= repair.org/02strategy/02certification/01requirements.php#req26</a>>]<br> <br>> That idea is basically a way for web authors to override the UA de= faults<br>>and this way overcome the current differences in those defaul= ts<br><br>Right.<br><br>>, but in no<br>>way it does assure that the = users will get their expected rendering because <br>>the user could have specified a User Stylesheet.<br><br>By what log= ic would a user define User CSS and not expect that to affect th= e<br>rendering? (And, as I said earlier, a specced default presentation doe= sn't <br>give that ensurance either.)</blockquote><div><br>I meant: the users wo= n't get the web authors expected rendering. No matter if there's a = common CSS for all UA or not, or if the web author uses a 'CSS Zapper&#= 39; or not, the users can specify their own file that will override all of = them. <br><br>So the idea of adding a CSS Zapper in every web mean just more Kb t= o download, and now people are suggesting this because each UA has some dif= ferences in their default values. If every UA used the same defaults from t= he beginning then the idea of a CSS zapper wouldn't had saw the light. <br></div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px s= olid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">>= ;Having the UA use all of them a common stylesheet will get the same effect <br>>that specifying a "CSS zapper", but most important: it wi= ll be easier to<br>>control the rendering if all the behavior is specifi= ed in a css file used by<br>>the browser.<br><br>Control by whom? (I ask= specifically, because on the WHATWG mailing list now <br>and then people seem to think that control should be moved more from us= ers to<br>authors, which I thoroughly disagree with.)</blockquote><div><br>= By both web authors and users of course, anyone that can put a css file won= 't have to guess how to override some styling if you can find it docume= nted in a single place. And users will be able to use the same User Stylesh= eets across different browsers and it will work all the same <br><br></div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1= px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"= >Anyway, you seem to be talking here about the problem that some UAs use<br= > styling that cannot be targeted through CSS. As far as I can see that's= a<br>different issue altogether. My initial take on that would be that use= rs can<br>vote with their wallets.</blockquote><div><br></div></div>Users j= ust have to choose the lesser evil. Browser A does this, browser B does tha= t, browser C does that other thing and I can't use browser D as it'= s not available in my OS. So they stick just with the one that gives them l= ess troubles (if they ever notice that they can choose their browser) <br> ------=_Part_16916_1807164.1175954504856--