Re: [whatwg] [html5] r6895 - [ac] (0) Tweak hidden='''s definition a bit to be more consistent with likely us [...]

<CAHp8n2n0V74vCz-aLdoRjZv2-=4zBDk5A9mcwVtone-p3FMAbg@mail.gmail.com>

Current votes: None.

Could we add "video" to the list of aria-describedby elements that may
link to hidden text?

i.e. change
"..being referenced from the images that they describe"
to
"..being referenced from the images or videos that they describe" ?

IMO that would resolve several of the accessibility issues for the
video element, including poster-alt.

Cheers,
Silvia.


On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 9:11 AM,  <whatwg@whatwg.org> wrote:
> Author: ianh
> Date: 2012-01-13 14:11:10 -0800 (Fri, 13 Jan 2012)
> New Revision: 6895
>
> Modified:
> =A0 complete.html
> =A0 index
> =A0 source
> Log:
> [ac] (0) Tweak hidden=3D'''s definition a bit to be more consistent with =
likely usage scenarios.
> Affected topics: HTML
>
> Modified: complete.html
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> --- complete.html =A0 =A0 =A0 2012-01-13 01:42:12 UTC (rev 6894)
> +++ complete.html =A0 =A0 =A0 2012-01-13 22:11:10 UTC (rev 6895)
> @@ -70442,9 +70442,11 @@
>
> =A0 <p>All <a href=3D#html-elements>HTML elements</a> may have the <code =
title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code> conte=
nt attribute set. The <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attri=
bute>hidden</a></code> attribute is a <a href=3D#boolean-attribute>boolean
> =A0 attribute</a>. When specified on an element, it indicates that
> - =A0the element is not yet, or is no longer, relevant. <span class=3Dimp=
l>User agents should not render elements that have the
> - =A0<code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a>=
</code> attribute
> - =A0specified.</span></p>
> + =A0the element is not yet, or is no longer, directly relevant to the
> + =A0page's current state, or that it is being used to declare content to
> + =A0be reused by other parts of the page as opposed to being directly
> + =A0accessed by the user. <span class=3Dimpl>User agents should not
> + =A0render elements that have the <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#t=
he-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code> attribute specified.</span></p>
>
> =A0 <div class=3Dexample>
>
> @@ -70485,9 +70487,15 @@
> =A0 <!-- for example, "<a hidden href=3D#content>Skip to content</a>" wou=
ld be inappropriate. -->
> =A0 <!-- (but only add that example if you first add some more good valid=
 examples -->
>
> - =A0<p>Elements that are not <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hi=
dden-attribute>hidden</a></code>
> - =A0should not link to or refer to elements that are <code title=3Dattr-=
hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code>.</p>
> + =A0<p>Elements that are not themselves <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a hre=
f=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code> must not <a href=3D#hyperlink>h=
yperlink</a> to
> + =A0elements that are <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-at=
tribute>hidden</a></code>. The <code title=3D"">for</code> attributes of <c=
ode><a href=3D#the-label-element>label</a></code> and
> + =A0<code><a href=3D#the-output-element>output</a></code> elements that =
are not themselves <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribut=
e>hidden</a></code> must similarly not refer to
> + =A0elements that are <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-at=
tribute>hidden</a></code>. In both
> + =A0cases, such references would cause user confusion.</p>
>
> + =A0<p>Elements and scripts may, however, refer to elements that are
> + =A0<code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a>=
</code> in other contexts.</p>
> +
> =A0 <div class=3Dexample>
>
> =A0 =A0<p>For example, it would be incorrect to use the <code title=3Datt=
r-hyperlink-href><a href=3D#attr-hyperlink-href>href</a></code> attribute t=
o link to a
> @@ -70495,12 +70503,17 @@
> =A0 =A0attribute. If the content is not applicable or relevant, then ther=
e
> =A0 =A0is no reason to link to it.</p>
>
> - =A0 <p>It would similarly be incorrect to use the ARIA <code title=3Dat=
tr-aria-describedby>aria-describedby</code> attribute to
> - =A0 refer to descriptions that are themselves <code title=3Dattr-hidden=
><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code>. Hiding a section means =
that it
> - =A0 is not applicable or relevant to anyone at the current time, so
> - =A0 clearly it cannot be a valid description of content the user can
> - =A0 interact with.</p>
> + =A0 <p>It would be fine, however, to use the ARIA <code title=3Dattr-ar=
ia-describedby>aria-describedby</code> attribute to
> + =A0 refer to descriptions that are themselves <code title=3Dattr-hidden=
><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code>. While hiding the descri=
ptions
> + =A0 implies that they are not useful alone, they could be written in
> + =A0 such a way that they are useful in the specific context of being
> + =A0 referenced from the images that they describe.</p>
>
> + =A0 <p>Similarly, a <code><a href=3D#the-canvas-element>canvas</a></cod=
e> element with the <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribu=
te>hidden</a></code> attribute could be used by a
> + =A0 scripted graphics engine as an off-screen buffer, and a form
> + =A0 control could refer to a hidden <code><a href=3D#the-form-element>f=
orm</a></code> element using its
> + =A0 <code title=3Dattr-fae-form><a href=3D#attr-fae-form>form</a></code=
> attribute.</p>
> +
> =A0 </div>
>
> =A0 <p>Elements in a section hidden by the <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a h=
ref=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code> attribute are still active,
>
> Modified: index
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> --- index =A0 =A0 =A0 2012-01-13 01:42:12 UTC (rev 6894)
> +++ index =A0 =A0 =A0 2012-01-13 22:11:10 UTC (rev 6895)
> @@ -70442,9 +70442,11 @@
>
> =A0 <p>All <a href=3D#html-elements>HTML elements</a> may have the <code =
title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code> conte=
nt attribute set. The <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attri=
bute>hidden</a></code> attribute is a <a href=3D#boolean-attribute>boolean
> =A0 attribute</a>. When specified on an element, it indicates that
> - =A0the element is not yet, or is no longer, relevant. <span class=3Dimp=
l>User agents should not render elements that have the
> - =A0<code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a>=
</code> attribute
> - =A0specified.</span></p>
> + =A0the element is not yet, or is no longer, directly relevant to the
> + =A0page's current state, or that it is being used to declare content to
> + =A0be reused by other parts of the page as opposed to being directly
> + =A0accessed by the user. <span class=3Dimpl>User agents should not
> + =A0render elements that have the <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#t=
he-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code> attribute specified.</span></p>
>
> =A0 <div class=3Dexample>
>
> @@ -70485,9 +70487,15 @@
> =A0 <!-- for example, "<a hidden href=3D#content>Skip to content</a>" wou=
ld be inappropriate. -->
> =A0 <!-- (but only add that example if you first add some more good valid=
 examples -->
>
> - =A0<p>Elements that are not <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hi=
dden-attribute>hidden</a></code>
> - =A0should not link to or refer to elements that are <code title=3Dattr-=
hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code>.</p>
> + =A0<p>Elements that are not themselves <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a hre=
f=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code> must not <a href=3D#hyperlink>h=
yperlink</a> to
> + =A0elements that are <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-at=
tribute>hidden</a></code>. The <code title=3D"">for</code> attributes of <c=
ode><a href=3D#the-label-element>label</a></code> and
> + =A0<code><a href=3D#the-output-element>output</a></code> elements that =
are not themselves <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribut=
e>hidden</a></code> must similarly not refer to
> + =A0elements that are <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-at=
tribute>hidden</a></code>. In both
> + =A0cases, such references would cause user confusion.</p>
>
> + =A0<p>Elements and scripts may, however, refer to elements that are
> + =A0<code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a>=
</code> in other contexts.</p>
> +
> =A0 <div class=3Dexample>
>
> =A0 =A0<p>For example, it would be incorrect to use the <code title=3Datt=
r-hyperlink-href><a href=3D#attr-hyperlink-href>href</a></code> attribute t=
o link to a
> @@ -70495,12 +70503,17 @@
> =A0 =A0attribute. If the content is not applicable or relevant, then ther=
e
> =A0 =A0is no reason to link to it.</p>
>
> - =A0 <p>It would similarly be incorrect to use the ARIA <code title=3Dat=
tr-aria-describedby>aria-describedby</code> attribute to
> - =A0 refer to descriptions that are themselves <code title=3Dattr-hidden=
><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code>. Hiding a section means =
that it
> - =A0 is not applicable or relevant to anyone at the current time, so
> - =A0 clearly it cannot be a valid description of content the user can
> - =A0 interact with.</p>
> + =A0 <p>It would be fine, however, to use the ARIA <code title=3Dattr-ar=
ia-describedby>aria-describedby</code> attribute to
> + =A0 refer to descriptions that are themselves <code title=3Dattr-hidden=
><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code>. While hiding the descri=
ptions
> + =A0 implies that they are not useful alone, they could be written in
> + =A0 such a way that they are useful in the specific context of being
> + =A0 referenced from the images that they describe.</p>
>
> + =A0 <p>Similarly, a <code><a href=3D#the-canvas-element>canvas</a></cod=
e> element with the <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a href=3D#the-hidden-attribu=
te>hidden</a></code> attribute could be used by a
> + =A0 scripted graphics engine as an off-screen buffer, and a form
> + =A0 control could refer to a hidden <code><a href=3D#the-form-element>f=
orm</a></code> element using its
> + =A0 <code title=3Dattr-fae-form><a href=3D#attr-fae-form>form</a></code=
> attribute.</p>
> +
> =A0 </div>
>
> =A0 <p>Elements in a section hidden by the <code title=3Dattr-hidden><a h=
ref=3D#the-hidden-attribute>hidden</a></code> attribute are still active,
>
> Modified: source
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> --- source =A0 =A0 =A02012-01-13 01:42:12 UTC (rev 6894)
> +++ source =A0 =A0 =A02012-01-13 22:11:10 UTC (rev 6895)
> @@ -82362,10 +82362,12 @@
> =A0 title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code> content attribute set. The <code
> =A0 title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code> attribute is a <span>boolean
> =A0 attribute</span>. When specified on an element, it indicates that
> - =A0the element is not yet, or is no longer, relevant. <span
> - =A0class=3D"impl">User agents should not render elements that have the
> - =A0<code title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code> attribute
> - =A0specified.</span></p>
> + =A0the element is not yet, or is no longer, directly relevant to the
> + =A0page's current state, or that it is being used to declare content to
> + =A0be reused by other parts of the page as opposed to being directly
> + =A0accessed by the user. <span class=3D"impl">User agents should not
> + =A0render elements that have the <code
> + =A0title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code> attribute specified.</span></p>
>
> =A0 <div class=3D"example">
>
> @@ -82408,10 +82410,18 @@
> =A0 <!-- for example, "<a hidden href=3D#content>Skip to content</a>" wou=
ld be inappropriate. -->
> =A0 <!-- (but only add that example if you first add some more good valid=
 examples -->
>
> - =A0<p>Elements that are not <code title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code>
> - =A0should not link to or refer to elements that are <code
> - =A0title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code>.</p>
> + =A0<p>Elements that are not themselves <code
> + =A0title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code> must not <span>hyperlink</span> =
to
> + =A0elements that are <code title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code>. The <co=
de
> + =A0title=3D"">for</code> attributes of <code>label</code> and
> + =A0<code>output</code> elements that are not themselves <code
> + =A0title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code> must similarly not refer to
> + =A0elements that are <code title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code>. In both
> + =A0cases, such references would cause user confusion.</p>
>
> + =A0<p>Elements and scripts may, however, refer to elements that are
> + =A0<code title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code> in other contexts.</p>
> +
> =A0 <div class=3D"example">
>
> =A0 =A0<p>For example, it would be incorrect to use the <code
> @@ -82420,14 +82430,20 @@
> =A0 =A0attribute. If the content is not applicable or relevant, then ther=
e
> =A0 =A0is no reason to link to it.</p>
>
> - =A0 <p>It would similarly be incorrect to use the ARIA <code
> + =A0 <p>It would be fine, however, to use the ARIA <code
> =A0 =A0title=3D"attr-aria-describedby">aria-describedby</code> attribute =
to
> =A0 =A0refer to descriptions that are themselves <code
> - =A0 title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code>. Hiding a section means that it
> - =A0 is not applicable or relevant to anyone at the current time, so
> - =A0 clearly it cannot be a valid description of content the user can
> - =A0 interact with.</p>
> + =A0 title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code>. While hiding the descriptions
> + =A0 implies that they are not useful alone, they could be written in
> + =A0 such a way that they are useful in the specific context of being
> + =A0 referenced from the images that they describe.</p>
>
> + =A0 <p>Similarly, a <code>canvas</code> element with the <code
> + =A0 title=3D"attr-hidden">hidden</code> attribute could be used by a
> + =A0 scripted graphics engine as an off-screen buffer, and a form
> + =A0 control could refer to a hidden <code>form</code> element using its
> + =A0 <code title=3D"attr-fae-form">form</code> attribute.</p>
> +
> =A0 </div>
>
> =A0 <p>Elements in a section hidden by the <code
>
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